Questions about maintaining shave ready razors

[sd_baker]

I got a PIF and method edge razor coming from the very generous @rbscebu . I got some questions about maintaining razors with pasted balsa.

1. I already have diamond powders, so the plan is to apply a mineral oil slurry to balsa strops. Is this okay or should I order premade paste (techdiamond on Amazon)?

2. I'm missing 0.1 micron. How would the edge be different if I bottomed out at 0.25 micron?

3. If I just stropped on clean leather and assuming "average" conditions, how many shaves on average would the edge last?

4. If I did (3), would the edge be recoverable with just a balsa progression? I assume it needs to go back to stones / film.

 

[rbscebu]

1. No need to mix your diamond powders with mineral oil to apply to your balsa. Just mix your powders with rubbing alcohol (a very watery mixture) and apply sparingly to the balsa surface.

I use paste that is water based and mix it with rubbing alcohol into a watery mixture to apply to my balsa.

The alcohol quickly evaporates and then I rub as much the diamonds off the balsa as I can. Less is best.

2. Many have tried shaving off 1μm lapping film, 0.5μm diamond pasted balsa, 0.25μm diamond pasted balsa and 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa. Most found that the worst shaves were off (in order):

0.25μm (worst)
0.5μm
1μm
0.1μm (best)

I would recommend that you get the 0.1μm paste.

3. How long a clean leather stropped only edge will last depends a lot on the blade's steel and your shaving/stropping technique. Some beginners need a blade refresh (on whetstone(s)) after just 10 or so shaves. Many experienced SR shavers can get 50 or a lot more shaves just off clean leather before a refresh is required.

4. Yes, it could be recoverable but will take a lot (thousands?) of laps to get there. Better off going back to whetstone(s) and/or lapping films.

 

[sd_baker]

1. No need to mix your diamond powders with mineral oil to apply to your balsa. Just mix your powders with rubbing alcohol (a very watery mixture) and apply sparingly to the balsa surface.

I already make a spray with 99% alcohol and diamond powder. The only reason I mentioned mineral oil is people seem to think a paste with some kind of binder helps the diamond stick better to balsa. So, do you think I can use alcohol sprays with balsa?

Does this sound ok?

1. spray on
2. let dry completely
3. rub with paper towel to even out and rub off as much as possible

 

[rbscebu]

I already make a spray with 99% alcohol and diamond powder. The only reason I mentioned mineral oil is people seem to think a paste with some kind of binder helps the diamond stick better to balsa. So, do you think I can use alcohol sprays with balsa?

Does this sound ok?

1. spray on
2. let dry completely
3. rub with paper towel to even out and rub off as much as possible

It should work but I have never tried it. I would not use paper towel to wipe the diamonds off. A piece of clean old t-shirt would work better.

It is not a matter of the diamonds "sticking" to the balsa. The diamonds are easily embedded into the balsa surface.

To apply my diamonds to the balsa, I first mix about a half teaspoon (3ml to 4ml) of alcohol with diamond paste (about the volume of 3 or 4 grains of rice). I then dip my finger into the liquid and apply it to the pre-flattened balsa surface, let it dry and then try to gently rub it all off with a clean old t-shirt.

 

[sd_baker]

That makes sense. Did you buy your paste form Amazon or Aliexpress? Which brand is it?

 

[rbscebu]

I bought my pastes (0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm) from TechDiamond Tools on Amazon. Another good source (cheaper per gram) is from Andrew at Razorsandmore in the UK on Etsy. Andrew's Windrose SR cases are also very good.

After four years of fairly heavy use, it looks like a 5g tube is going to last me about 10 years. I relap and paste my balsa strops about every 2 to 3 months. (That reminds me, they need relapping and pasting this month.)

If you have a choice of concentrations and you are applying it with alcohol, get the highest concentration as you then need less of it per application.

Most diamond pastes come either oil or water based. If applying with alcohol, either will do, otherwise water-based is preferred but not mandatory.

Diamond pasted can be either mono-crystaline or poly-crystaline. The poly is preferred but again not mandatory.

 

[Jaco]

Agree with everything @rbscebu says, but I will share my experiences as well.

There is a probably 100+ pages on another forum that explains the smallest details about diamond pasted strops. They go on and on about the smallest details, boring, not for me. Like most men, I read until I thought I had the basics down and then tried it myself. Not the most efficient way, but hey if we all followed the rules to the T, life will be very boring! Took me about two years to realise that the details are important, and now I do it exactly as they describe it

First issue: When you are new at it, it's difficult to judge if it is working. You just have to trust it, until you gain more experience.

Two mistakes I made: Too much paste, and too much pressure when stropping. It comes back to the first issue, it didn't "feel" like it was working. In this case less is always better, except for the amount of laps you do. Saying that, it still worked, but it was not optimal, and as I gained experience it worked more reliably.

It is worth finding the .1 micron paste. It has been the experience of almost everyone, including me, that the .25 micron edge feels harsh compared to the .1 micron edge. Doesn't really make sense, but when a few people notice it independently, there must be truth in it.

Another disaster that awaits newbies is cross-contamination. Be very careful to keep the grits separate. Make sure your hands and razor are clean before moving to the next grit. Store your strops separate, don't let them touch each other. I have made cardboard sleeves for each strop. Don't be tempted to make double sided strops, don't try to sand down a strop and apply a different grid. Ask me how I know .

 

[sd_baker]

I ordered the 0.1 paste from razorsandmore, as the shipping to Canada was a little steep form techdiamond. BTW, Richard, you mentioned on another forum that you hadn't found 0.1 diamond powder grit from Aliexpress. I did find one - item 1005004299199023 (I'm not sure what links are allowed here).

 

[rbscebu]

I ordered the 0.1 paste from razorsandmore, as the shipping to Canada was a little steep form techdiamond. BTW, Richard, you mentioned on another forum that you hadn't found 0.1 diamond powder grit from Aliexpress. I did find one - item 1005004299199023 (I'm not sure what links are allowed here).

I have never looked for diamond powder, just pastes. Thank you for the heads-up.

BTW, I don't think there are any rules against posting links on P&C. About the only rule is "Don't be a dickhead".

 

[Gargravarr]

I have never looked for diamond powder, just pastes. Thank you for the heads-up.

BTW, I don't think there are any rules against posting links on P&C. About the only rule anyone needs is "Don't be a dickhead".

"Don't be a dick" is the only rule anyone needs. We could easily do away with all the laws of the land and replace them with that one. Any lawyer who attempts to argue the definition of being a dick is automatically in violation of rule #1 and should be summarily executed without right of appeal.

 

[sd_baker]

So I have made some strops with flat heat treated hardwood and balsa, but based on the advice here, I ordered 1/2" thick 12"x12" cast acrylic that I will cut into 4 pieces with a miter saw.

In my mind, I just can't imaging that the wood deforming that much in normal conditions, especially as I will reflatten and recondition the balsa every few months. But as @Jaco points out, I will follow the letter of the law until I can get consistent results.

 

[rbscebu]

@sd_baker, all timbers absorb moisture (humidity) to some extent. Timber is not homogeneous so will swell and warp at different rates throughout its structure. Balsa is no exception to that swelling and warping.

The main purpose of the balsa substrate is to remian stable and be of relatively low density. Acrylic is probably the easiest to probably one of the easiest materials with which to do this.

Thick acrylic was not readily available to me. I decided on putting together a composite substrate of ceramic tile (on top) with polyurethane structural foam under the tile. This met the requirements for a suitable substrate and had a lower overall density than acrylic. The balsa was then glued to the upper surface of the tile.

 

[sd_baker]

I went to Home Depot and checked all the ceramic according to a steel rule that I'm reasonably sure is flat. I could not find a flat tile in the pile. The 1/2" foot square acrylic came. It'a amazing how flat this thing is and so clear. I can see perfectly through the entire foot of substrate. It's quite a marvel of human ingenuity.

 

[rbscebu]

I went to Home Depot and checked all the ceramic according to a steel rule that I'm reasonably sure is flat. I could not find a flat tile in the pile. The 1/2" foot square acrylic came. It'a amazing how flat this thing is and so clear. I can see perfectly through the entire foot of substrate. It's quite a marvel of human ingenuity.

I am curious as to why you wanted a super-flat tile for a balsa strop.

The tile for a balsa strop does not need to be super flat. That is not part of the criteria for the substrate of a balsa strop.

The surface of the balsa is made flat when you lap it flat.

 

[sd_baker]

In my mind I think I conflated stability with flatness. I also have a diamond plate glued to a piece of wood to flatten my stones. Although I've not noticed any warping in the wood there, since it's a wet environment, I'd like to switch to a truly flat surface at some point.

 

[sd_baker]

Continuing from this discussion...

I don't mean to mention my mirror bevel as a point of pride. I don't try to achieve anything aesthetically.

I'm just not sure going through a method grit progression, how the bevel can end up not being fully mirror; the fear being there is something I'm missing.

@rbscebu What is your progression for the GD66 before balsa?

 

[rbscebu]

Continuing from this discussion...


@rbscebu What is your progression for the GD66 before balsa?

1. Correct the multifaceted bevel on 400 grit whetstone (with taped spine).
2. Remove tape. Start setting bevel on 1k until I start to get a burr in places.
3. Finish setting bevel on 3k.
4. Start refining edge on 8k.
[All of the above whetstones are no-brand Chinese.]
5. Continue refining edge on 5μm, 3μm and 1μm lapping films.
6. Finish edge on a full diamond pasted balsa strop progression of 0.5μm, 0.25μm, 0.1μm and 0.1μm hanging.
7. Strop on clean leather and shave.

The above takes me about an hour or so.

After each shave, I give the edge 60 laps on 0.1μm hanging (including the required short X strokes). Doing this, I never need to hone that edge again. I like a fresh crisp edge with each shave.

 

[sd_baker]

Is this still your 0.1 maintenance?

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

I will try this. Sounds logical. I bought the razor in an auction and had Karl from mainley razors restore it. He transformed the razor to better than new. I liked the shape, the lines and that it said India steel on it. That is a nice piece of history. It should probably last a lifetime...

www.badgerandblade.com

15 standard laps
6 short X laps
15 standard laps
8 short X laps
End-for-end the balsa
15 standard laps
10 short X strokes
15 standard laps
12 to 15 short X strokes

As my hanging balsa stropping technique improved (got lighter) over a year or two, I found that my edges were not being kept up to my expected standard. I then changed my first 15 standard laps on hanging balsa to 15 standard laps on hand-held 0.1μm pasted balsa - weight of blade only. The rest were done on hanging. Problem solved.

All up, my post shave pasted balsa stropping takes about two minutes after each shave.

Do not use pull strokes any more?

 

[rbscebu]

Do not use pull strokes when stropping on 0.1μm hanging, short X strokes only. You do use pull strokes on 0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm.

Sometime before next Monday, I hope to have full pdf instructions posted on P&C covering the use of diamond pasted balsa strops and how to put them together.

 

[sd_baker]

Do not use pull strokes when stropping on 0.1μm hanging, short X strokes only. You do use pull strokes on 0.5μm, 0.25μm and 0.1μm.

Sometime before next Monday, I hope to have full pdf instructions posted on P&C covering the use of diamond pasted balsa strops and how to put them together.

I have tried hanging balsa strop a la

. The wood backed strops I currently have may be too light (I'm still working on acrylic strops or I'm just really not used to the motions yet.