Straightest path to a Kamisori

[stillshunter]

Might be the fault of my recent discovery of the pleasures and aesthetic of the Feather AS and self-same blade, but my eye has recently been drawn to kamisori. And so I've come to wonder how does a DE shaver, who has never wielded a straight, best arrive at the proficient kamisori shave?

To my untrained eye, the principles of a straight or kamisori shave look very similar but..
Does the path from DE have to go through, or even best travelled via, a small sojourn with straights - or even shavettes, such as the Feather Artist Club?
Or can one just as well travel directly from a DE to a kamisori, might it actually save you having to unlearn bad straight habits - much like we most had to unlearn going from cartridges to DEs?

I don't have delusions of being proficient immediately but, my destination is clear - its kamisori and not straights - so I wonder whether those first tentative cheek strokes are best done with the ultimate intent in hand?

ありがとう

 

[Pjotr]

Might be the fault of my recent discovery of the pleasures and aesthetic of the Feather AS and self-same blade, but my eye has recently been drawn to kamisori. And so I've come to wonder how does a DE shaver, who has never wielded a straight, best arrive at the proficient kamisori shave?

To my untrained eye, the principles of a straight or kamisori shave look very similar but..
Does the path from DE have to go through, or even best travelled via, a small sojourn with straights - or even shavettes, such as the Feather Artist Club?
Or can one just as well travel directly from a DE to a kamisori, might it actually save you having to unlearn bad straight habits - much like we most had to unlearn going from cartridges to DEs?

I don't have delusions of being proficient immediately but, my destination is clear - its kamisori and not straights - so I wonder whether those first tentative cheek strokes are best done with the ultimate intent in hand?

ありがとう

Here we go! Personally not quite sure what the difference is aside from the fact that a straight blade at rest folds in to the scales. Be that as it may, aside from stropping I'm sure you'll also have to branch out to honing and sharpening stones and more sharpening stones and then some more sharpening stones unless you send it away to get honed. I'm sure most people used to just give their straight to the barber for honing but now most barbers don't really know how to handle DE blades let alone managing an old fashioned straight.

And if you're going to get the whole stropping/honing set up you're not going to stick to one blade are you? So there's the flood gate opening for buying more straights/kamisoris and then some more straights/kamisoris and then...........

It is however a very alluring proposition but if I were to indulge in the whole straight thing I would also have to join in to the familial chorus and declare myself completely bonkers.

 

[eggbert]

@Pjotr's right. The steel needs to relax after all the stress of cutting through your beard - there a reason for 7 day straight packs you know.

And that reason is gullibility

 

[Mark1966]

Oh

Dear

 

[Nick the Knife]

Oh

Dear

+100 to this and it does tend to encapsulate all the relevant info in the most succinct manner.

@stillshunter , I thought you were 'simplifying' your shaving inventory - going into a straight etc tangent would be opening up an entire new worm hole of buys/costs/etc.

I've all the respect in the world for our straight using brethern and the kamisori users amongst them are that extra tad impressive....BUT in my very, very short try with a straight and shavette I found the significant extra hassle/risk/stress just didn't stack up .....and thats all assuming you've a honemaster nearby to do all your resharpening unless you want to buy several hundred dollars worth of whetstones and learn another very specialised skillset etc etc.

Like I said I have a world of respect for them - so not straight bashing, but you do realise how good you have it using safety razors after you've gone down that path for a bit.

All that said, your wording is very much already decided - so fair play to you for giving it a try as it's a bridge too far for me.

 

[borked]

Yes yet he will have the sharpest butter knives in Canberra and it's surrounding areas

 

[Dale.Whiley]

my destination is clear - its kamisori and not straights

If I had the money I would have several (read many) of both, a collection to rival @Mark1966 's DE stables.

but you do realise how good you have it using safety razors after you've gone down that path for a bit.

But the point is do you want to be good at wielding a DE which is a niche skill compared to the shaving world in general (plastic cartridge thingies) or do you want to climb to a very elite class using a straight and then further to the Kamisori? The man who wields a Kamisori with skill is a man who has the respect and admiration of shavers everywhere.

@stillshunter , follow that vision to the highlands. Don't dwell in the slough of despondency with the naysayers.

But if you buy one and don't like it; hey, I'll receive your gift offering.

 

[Nick the Knife]

But the point is do you want to be good at wielding a DE which is a niche skill compared to the shaving world in general (plastic cartridge thingies) or do you want to climb to a very elite class using a straight and then further to the Kamisori? The man who wields a Kamisori with skill is a man who has the respect and admiration of shavers everywhere.

I understand and completely agree with your point HOWEVER my point was different and as such not in opposition to what you've just said. Essentially I was just saying it's a very severe incline ahead and it's caveat emptor.

In ultra simple terms, DE shaving over what the masses do (electric, disposables, carts etc) makes sense on many levels. However if I compare straights to DE's I just can't find any or atleast many (as I think it's undeniably 'cooler'/more impressive/alpha male-ish - though as you age that resonates less and less) pro's that it has over DE's, especially when you factor in the cons. But thats clearly a VERY subjective and personal call, nothing otherwise implied.

Respect & admiration in general might be going a tad far - it's undeniably impressive, however it's essentially an outlier of the wetshaving world and as such the general perceptions (and realities!) that go along with all outliers would accompany it - for better or worse.

But in complete sincerity I do hope if it's the right thing for him @stillshunter progresses forward with it as not many do and that alone I can appreciate.

 

[stillshunter]

All thanks for your opinions on the worthiness, or otherwise, of my intended path.
However my initial question remains:
Can/should a DE shaver go straight to a kamisori or is he best to cut his teeth (awful metaphor) on a straight or shavette first?

Maybe the likes of @Mark , @razorguy or @Marlow are better placed to answer. Oh where is @Marlow ?....Hope he's OK.

 

[Nonick]

Stills if your wanting to use a Kamisori you can do so easily.

The technique is just a little learning curve, like learning anything.

Within two weeks you would be using one fearlessly, and shortly after having great shaves.

Don't get a shavette, they're rubbish. Don't get a straight, it will be no different in shaving technique (the only difference would be that using a straight your little finger rests on the open scales and helps with control)


You will need a strop and learning that. It's not hard. It is something else to learn. A good strop makes a difference to a cheap strop. Good stropping technique makes a difference too. The better you get at this the better your shaves will become.

You don't need stones yet, you can get it honed by Oz or Mark here. Later you can go down that track.



Bottom line. Go right to a Kamisori if that's what you want. Enjoy learning some new skills.

 

[Mark]

@stillshunter, Straight razors and shavettes are completely different, although the technique is the same it is much easier to use a hollow ground straight razor and here's why... They're sharper when honed properly, therefore comfortable and the thin grind allows for some flex and feedback in the blade therefore making it more forgiving and will warn you if you've made an error before it bites, where a shavette has none of those highly thought out and finely crafted features making it nothing but tool that holds razor blades (hence the permanent scar on my upper lip). I used a shavette for over 5 years before I moved to a straight thinking there was no difference, I was completely wrong.

 

[razorguy]

All thanks for your opinions on the worthiness, or otherwise, of my intended path.
However my initial question remains:
Can/should a DE shaver go straight to a kamisori or is he best to cut his teeth (awful metaphor) on a straight or shavette first?

Maybe the likes of @Mark , @razorguy or @Marlow are better placed to answer. Oh where is @Marlow ?....Hope he's OK.

DE, straight razor and kamisori represent three different styles and philosophies about shaving. You would not use the straight razor technique with a kamisori as the two are different in many regards, not to mention how you hold and use it.
Going from DE to kamisori needs you to change your idea about shave and shaving. The point, for example, can be very dangerous and you need to pay scrupulous attention on it.
Shavette too is different from all the rest. You may think it is like using a straight razor, indeed they are not the same. As a matter of fact a straight razor is safer than a shavette, the latter being less forgiving.
You may go from DE to any other shaving tool: in any case you need to forget about DE and think you are using a different tool requiring a totally different style, technique and philosophy.
Take your time and never be in a hurry: time and practice will reward you sooner or later.

 

[Mark1966]

Crap, why am I reading this thread.

Wondering whether I should give this a try

 

[stillshunter]

That's more like it. @Nonick , @Mark , @razorguy . Thanks guys. This gives me more to think about.

For me shaving is about the aesthetic and there is something very appealing about the Kamisori. It might be some way off, and it might be the product of going down Tharwa way - not far from here - and making my own with Dean Jard. Not the cheapest way of doing it, but does sound like a great day. Not sure you learn to hone the blade so that might be an unoptional extra....
...again it's just about options.

Monday to Friday I can use my Feather DE and when I want a little departure this might be an interesting little contemplation.

 

[stillshunter]

Crap, why am I reading this thread.

Wondering whether I should give this a try

Wanna come down to Dean Jard's at Tharwa to make a few of our own mate.
...one advantage of living near our Hallowed Capital.

 

[Mark]

Crap, why am I reading this thread.

Wondering whether I should give this a try

O-oh! Danger alert! Quickly evacuate this thread while you can!

 

[filobiblic]

I'm finding that the path to DE to straight is not difficult but requires learning new skills with care and time. After a week of the straight, I've found Stropping to be straight forward and I now have more control over the razor on my face. I feel a long way off being completely in control but I'm on the path and it's not too hard at all. At the moment, I've just been shaving my cheeks in one direction. But the slow and steady patience is slowly being rewarded with more control and ease at handling the razor. I'm really enjoying learning to use a straight and I think I'll try a Kamisori down the track (once I get adept enough at a regular complete straight shave).

My advice FWIW is to start now. Buy a strop from @Mark and then either a Gold Dollar (as it's cheap and has a free re-hone) or buy a Kamisori and start with that. The Gold Dollar has the advantage of being the Toyota Camry (good sized, simple and yet reliable). Then I'd trade it in for the flashy Japanese sports car (nimble, sleek and oh, so so beautiful to drive).

My 2 yen worth. [emoji6]

 

[stillshunter]

O-oh! Danger alert! Quickly evacuate this thread while you can!

Hey you're all safe, I source things from the same town ....so anything secondhand that is at all viable it'll be gone before I've even found the store....and remember @Mark1966 doesn't buy one of anything

 

[filobiblic]

Wanna come down to Dean Jard's at Tharwa to make a few of our own mate.
...one advantage of living near our Hallowed Capital.

I'll join you both. Let me know in advance and I'd lock it in. I think @Mark may be keen too...

 

[Mark]

I'll join you both. Let me know in advance and I'd lock it in. I think @Mark may be keen too...

Absolutely filobiblic, if time and circumstances allow I'm definitely in. There are also nice vintages straights out there as well, although some might need restorations it may be worth it in the long run as I've restored dozens of them, although I don't have super fancy scales yet just simple ones for now until I work out how to get buffalo horn, bone and snake skin through customs LOL (working on it and progressing)