Lather like meringue and not like yogurt. What's wrong?

[dewynter]

Folks,
Quite often I end up with way too airy lather. It looks like meringue with micro-bubbles, matted, has spikes etc and not like thick and shiny yogurt. What could possibly went wrong with making lather? Or may be that is how it should be? Because I saw quite a few comments on Internet that it shouldn't be like that. It should be thick and shiny yogurt.
Sometimes meringue is not bad at all. For example today I shaved with Peter Charkalis' "Acqua di Florida". It was exactly like that, but the shave was amazing - had literally zero burning from alum block, which is quite impressive. I do have some burning with Mystic Water and Mike's so I guess meringue is not always bad, but the question is - should the lather be always like yogurt or not?

 

[Psmith]

There are some soaps that I don't always get loose, slick, shiny ,lather from and have stopped trying. MWF falls into that category, as does Arlington. Often I get thick, fluffy lather from them. MdC is shiny, but quite thick and dense. With those soaps, when I try for yoghurt I sometimes push them too far. The shiny, yoghurt like lather mostly comes from the US artisans soaps like B&M, Mike's and Stirling, although Tabac always gives me it too.

The most important thing, I find, is that you don't introduce too much water too quickly. A just damp brush, adding a few drops of water as I load heavily, then drops of water as I work the lather gives me the best results. Lathers that are quick, airy, 'false-lather' don't give me sufficient protection and lead to irritation.

 

[alfredus]

Mike's and Mystic definitely should

For me the easiest way is to start with a damp brush, load a lot and add water very gradually. This reveals the nature of the lather and then you know what to do in the future...

 

[todras]

Mike's and Mystic definitely should

For me the easiest way is to start with a damp brush, load a lot and add water very gradually. This reveals the nature of the lather and then you know what to do in the future...

This exactly.

Load it up like you're prosecuting it like a crooked NSW cop, then add a few drops of water slowly to see the true nature of the beast with which you wrangle. Every soap is different and will behave differently, some will take a lot of water initially and some will not. It's trial and error until you 'dial in' the particular soap. Too much water from the get go usually takes things way past the shiny yogurt stage in my experience and unless you then load more soap from the tub, there is no going back.

 

[dewynter]

Thanks, guys! That is what I'm trying to do. I'm loading a lot (I do) but as soon as transfer protolather to a bowl and start making lather it becomes very fluffy too quickly even without adding any water. B&M doesn't do that at all. Cannot comment on Mike's as I'm still trying to make it working properly for me. Mystic Water - tried two times and both times it was meringue and not yogurt. I'm in love with MW scents so I'll be trying more until I succeed. But I just cannot understand. Is it possible that the brush is a bit too wet initially? May be I need to seriously dry it?

 

[todras]

I'm still trying to make it working properly for me. Mystic Water - tried two times and both times it was meringue and not yogurt. I'm in love with MW scents so I'll be trying more until I succeed. But I just cannot understand. Is it possible that the brush is a bit too wet initially? May be I need to seriously dry it?

I soak my brush and shake it 4 or 5 times until there is no water whatsoever dripping from it. With Mystic Waters (which people do say can be a hard one to lather) I would be loading fairly heavily, probably for around 45 seconds of swirling the damp brush around the tub with decent pressure to ensure a nice coating of the bristles.

 

[nsavage]

Thanks, guys! That is what I'm trying to do. I'm loading a lot (I do) but as soon as transfer protolather to a bowl and start making lather it becomes very fluffy too quickly even without adding any water. B&M doesn't do that at all. Cannot comment on Mike's as I'm still trying to make it working properly for me. Mystic Water - tried two times and both times it was meringue and not yogurt. I'm in love with MW scents so I'll be trying more until I succeed. But I just cannot understand. Is it possible that the brush is a bit too wet initially? May be I need to seriously dry it?

Could I suggest switching to face lathering to see if that helps?

 

[Drubbing]

The key is a damp brush. Not wet. If you start with too much water in the brush it's harder to load soap and you create more bubbles, than loading the brush. The thing is to have the brush damp enough to lift off soap, if it's too dry, then flicking some water on the puck is usually enough to get things going. If using cream, use a bit more.

I strongly encourage face lathering. Bowls can be a pain. Faces stubble provide abrasion and resistance. You can also feel and see what is happening much easier. I tried bowls initially, but they were hit and miss, so I don't bother anymore.

When your technique is consistent, the differences between how well/quickly different soaps (and brushes) load and lather up, becomes virtually nonexistent; the adjustments are so minor, you tend to do it without thinking about it. People who say otherwise are likely to be running spreadsheets on this sort of stuff, and have opinions best avoided.

 

[dewynter]

I soak my brush and shake it 4 or 5 times until there is no water whatsoever dripping from it. With Mystic Waters (which people do say can be a hard one to lather) I would be loading fairly heavily, probably for around 45 seconds of swirling the damp brush around the tub with decent pressure to ensure a nice coating of the bristles.

I'm using synthetic bush most of the time so technically it should be easy to dry it after soaking. I simply squeeze it in my fist to dry it and then load it. I found that it's much easier to load Mystic Water than Mike's. For Mike's it takes literally a minute of "hating it" and with MW I got lots of product after 30-45 seconds with medium pressure.

Could I suggest switching to face lathering to see if that helps?

I was thinking about that as I found if I did that before the third pass (almost no lather in the bowl) then the lather was much-much better than for the first pass right from the bowl.

 

[dewynter]

The key is a damp brush. Not wet. If you start with too much water in the brush it's harder to load soap and you create more bubbles, than loading the brush. The thing is to have the brush damp enough to lift off soap, if it's too dry, then flicking some water on the puck is usually enough to get things going. If using cream, use a bit more.

I had the same suspicion, because sometimes the lather was absolutely perfect and sometimes it's not. Brush is the same, soap is the same, water is the same...

I strongly encourage face lathering. Bowls can be a pain. Faces stubble provide abrasion and resistance. You can also feel and see what is happening much easier. I tried bowls initially, but they were hit and miss, so I don't bother anymore.

Definitely will try that. Thanks!

When your technique is consistent, the differences between how well/quickly different soaps (and brushes) load and lather up, becomes virtually nonexistent; the adjustments are so minor, you tend to do it without thinking about it. People who say otherwise are likely to be running spreadsheets on this sort of stuff, and have opinions best avoided.

 

[nsavage]

I'm using synthetic bush most of the time so technically it should be easy to dry it after soaking. I simply squeeze it in my fist to dry it and then load it. I found that it's much easier to load Mystic Water than Mike's. For Mike's it takes literally a minute of "hating it" and with MW I got lots of product after 30-45 seconds with medium pressure.


I was thinking about that as I found if I did that before the third pass (almost no lather in the bowl) then the lather was much-much better than for the first pass right from the bowl.

When I started out I tried bowl lathering and got very inconsistent and some quite poor results. Switched to face lathering and never looked back. Still has taken me sometime to dial in exactly how I like my lather but now that I have it sorted I am rewarded time and time again by the result.

I also agree with @Drubbing once you get a consistently good technique sorted out you can switch soaps and still easily get an excellent result as you make the small variations etc. without even really thinking about it. You just get used to what you expect the lather to be like and are able to make the required adjustments intuitively.

 

[dewynter]

Ok, guys... I think I need a bigger brush for face lathering to hold lather for my 3.5 passes.
Time to place an order for Maggard Razors 26mm synthetic or Mühle Silvertip V2.0 25mm synthetic or Omega 20106 28mm boar... Unfortunately Semogue doesn't have large knots and Simpsons Chubby 2 is a bit pricey.

 

[todras]

Face or bowl, I don't honestly think it matters a great deal. I never face lather, my skin could not take it and I prefer using a bowl due to neatness. Whatever floats your boat and you get the best results from imho

Learning to work a good lather with the soap/cream of your choosing is the key from my experience. Once you get the lather itself dialed in, like the others have said jumping from soap to soap is effortless but getting the lather right initially is the key to it be it in a bowl or on the face.

 

[nsavage]

Ok, guys... I think I need a bigger brush for face lathering to hold lather for my 3.5 passes.
Time to place an order for Maggard Razors 26mm synthetic or Mühle Silvertip V2.0 25mm synthetic or Omega 20106 28mm boar... Unfortunately Semogue doesn't have large knots and Simpsons Chubby 2 is a bit pricey.

I would recommend checking out the Whipped Dog brushes as Larry makes an awesome brush for a very good price. You can get yourself a quality badger brush for not much more than the brush choices you have mentioned (perhaps less).

IMO once you go badger you will not look back.

 

[SpeedyPC]

I would recommend checking out the Whipped Dog brushes as Larry makes an awesome brush for a very good price. You can get yourself a quality badger brush for not much more than the brush choices you have mentioned (perhaps less).

IMO once you go badger you will not look back.

+1 I own both brushes

Whipped Dog 24mm knot Silvertip & High Mountain Badger side by side

 

[dewynter]

IMO once you go badger you will not look back.

I had badger brush before. Not very expensive one, but still a decent one. Moved to synthetic and I really like them. I've got one boar just for using once in a while, but not much. IMHO synthetic one outperforms twice more expensive badger one. i.e. $50 synthetic is better than $100 badger. I'd say Mühle Silvertip V2.0 is the best. I like Maggards as well, but Mühle Silvertip is probably even better than anything else including silvertip badger ones. It's not cheap at all, but it worth. I understand you can get some special grade badger for $500, but we are talking about relatively mass market.

PS. I do not want to start a holy war on synthetic vs badger vs boar.

 

[SpeedyPC]

@dewynter what ever works best for you just stick too it, and no hard feelings

 

[tullfan]

If you like synthetic,the Simpson Chubby 2 synthetic brush has very good reviews.
Shave Lounge in the U.K. has them for about £61 delivered.

 

[bald as]

Badger - Boar they all make excellent lather when you understand the fur !!

 

[nsavage]

I had badger brush before. Not very expensive one, but still a decent one. Moved to synthetic and I really like them. I've got one boar just for using once in a while, but not much. IMHO synthetic one outperforms twice more expensive badger one. i.e. $50 synthetic is better than $100 badger. I'd say Mühle Silvertip V2.0 is the best. I like Maggards as well, but Mühle Silvertip is probably even better than anything else including silvertip badger ones. It's not cheap at all, but it worth. I understand you can get some special grade badger for $500, but we are talking about relatively mass market.

PS. I do not want to start a holy war on synthetic vs badger vs boar.

I have to agree that you can get a solid performing synthetic very cheap. My $10 USD Razorock Plissoft will outperform a lot of cheap badger brushes IMO.

That being said my all of my badger brushes well and truly outperform the Razorock Plissoft in terms of face feel and the general quality of the lather created (we are talking only a small amount in regard to the lather though). Whilst all of my badger brushes are considerably more expensive than the Razorock Plissoft the cheapest one is a Semogue Owners Club 2 Band Badger and I highly recommend this brush to anyone who wants to start looking at higher end badger brushes. In addition to the performance of the brush it is also outstanding value for money IMO.