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PayPal F & F

Bucephalus

Bucephalus

Member
Recently, I conducted a $35 purchase from a fellow member who requested payment via PayPal F & F. However, I made payment via PayPal only and received the following advice:

QUOTE
Payment amount sent $35.00 AUD
PAID WITH VISA .... $35.00 AUD
You paid $35.00 AUD
........... will receive $35.00 AUD
END QUOTE

A short time later, as is the norm, I received a formal e-mail from PayPal advising same payment value to vendor. However, he advised a fee charged by PayPal, hence his request for payment via PayPal F & F. Why was a fee charged considering two advisories UNEQUIVALENTLY stating he would receive $35.00?

IF I understand correctly the procedures required for PayPal F & F, I provide bank account details. Perhaps a fellow contributor would correct/confirm? I would rather add the fee to the vendor's purchase price and pay as I normally do.

We collectively provide personal information willy-nilly for simple convenience without a second thought!
 
Sorry, "don't comment"? When processing my payment, I inserted my name and address for postage. Was that the reason for the fee?

PayPal TWICE advised payment of $35 to the vendor, NOT $35 less a fee. IMO, this is deceit by omission!
 
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Fees vary depending on the source of funds (balance/ bank account/ credit card) and whether it is a 'Family & Friends' payment or a 'Payment for Goods or Services'. See details here - https://www.paypal.com/au/selfhelp/article/What-are-the-fees-for-PayPal-accounts-FAQ690

Payment by F&F for the purchase of an item is a breach of the PayPal T&C and if you comment that is is 'Payment for ...' their system may identify it as a payment for goods and respond by blocking the transaction.

Payment by F&F also means as a purchaser you do not get the protection offered by PayPal for buyers.
 
Mark1966 said:
......... Payment by F&F for the purchase of an item is a breach of the PayPal T&C and if you comment that is is 'Payment for ...' their system may identify it as a payment for goods and respond by blocking the transaction. .......
Click to expand...

So, am I correct in the assumption that PayPal F&F should not be used for sales? Please note gents, I am NOT criticising anyone for doing so!

Rather than provide personal banking details, I would prefer to transfer the sale price plus 2.6% plus $0.30.
 
Becephalus said:
We collectively provide personal information willy-nilly for simple convenience without a second thought!
Click to expand...

Firstly, PayPal are known for their bastardry. Let's get that out the way first so there can be no misunderstanding as to my position.

Unfortunately in Australia, contained in the ACL and further provided for also the Contracts Act there is a concept of 'implied terms' in addition to the (express terms) i.e. the terms of service as @Mark1966 has correctly pointed out. As suggested, the comment line on a funds transfer is used by PayPal to scan for purchases, or investigation (my purchase of a Persian Brush) from a fellow member was flagged for 'political persons' investigation for 3 days, my account was locked pending the outcome of the investigation - I sent them a link to Simpsons Brushes of the UK and told them to stop being so bloody stupid and they unfroze my funds and account.

Now in this instance PayPal can quite correctly rely on their Terms and Conditions of use, but further to this there is an implied term that while not specifically contracted (You and Paypal) by usage of their financial transfer platform you know, or should reasonably know that a breach of their T&C's that are explicitly stated will result in the application of a tariff. They do not need to advise you of the application of this tariff, the method for determining it, or that it has occurred as a function of a transaction deemed to be a purchase or sale.

As I said, PayPal bastardry.
 
Organisations which collect data frequently use a database of "hit words" or "hit phrases" which trigger an alert.
When, other than historical, archeological or geographical references, was the last time the word Persia used;
eg. King Xerxes of Persia (defeated at the Battle of Thermoplae by King Leonides of Sparta), Persian Empire,
Persian Gulf, but the purchase of a Persian brush :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ?
 
Becephalus said:
So, am I correct in the assumption that PayPal F&F should not be used for sales? Please note gents, I am NOT criticising anyone for doing so!

Rather than provide personal banking details, I would prefer to transfer the sale price plus 2.6% plus $0.30.
Click to expand...

Yes, technically, as @todras pointed out. Amongst mates who you know you can trust it might be OK but I would be very cautious with people you are less familiar with.

The seller of my Darwin originally wanted F&F and I insisted on goods and services as it was a lot of money and I didn't really know him, it was on a FB group and I've heard of a few people being caught there. He was OK about that provided the price was adjusted and we ended up I paid two thirds of the fees and he paid one third. I've had other potential sellers refuse to use goods and services even when I cover all the fees. That is a big red flag to me and I walk away in those circumstances.

Becephalus said:
Organisations which collect data frequently use a database of "hit words" or "hit phrases" which trigger an alert.
When, other than historical, archeological or geographical references, was the last time the word Persia used;
eg. King Xerxes of Persia (defeated at the Battle of Thermoplae by King Leonides of Sparta), Persian Empire,
Persian Gulf, but the purchase of a Persian brush :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got caught the SECOND time I purchased 'Havana' aftershave (first the splash then the balm) from another member here. The second payment got held up for investigation - Cuba ban I presume.
 
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Becephalus said:
When, other than historical, archeological or geographical references, was the last time the word Persia used;
eg. King Xerxes of Persia (defeated at the Battle of Thermoplae by King Leonides of Sparta), Persian Empire,
Persian Gulf, but the purchase of a Persian brush
Click to expand...

PayPal is an American company so I suspect it may be something to do with terrorism based on keyword. With all their troubles they take this kind of thing terribly seriously, PayPal was implicated/named as being a funds conduit at one time, aside from their controversy in seizing donations to Wikileaks at one point. They are protecting their business model and shareholders while appearing patriotic which is major kudos and very important in the USA where again, it's all taken terribly seriously.

A complete farce I know, it was for a Persian Jar Badger Brush for the absolutely preposterous sum of $55.00. However that is the immediate danger to our privacy and failing of keyword analysis when it comes to communications - the algorithm or more correctly dictionary world analysis is incapable of ascertaining meaning and context of a word, it can only detect the word itself.
 
todras said:
PayPal is an American company so I suspect it may be something to do with terrorism based on keyword. With all their troubles they take this kind of thing terribly seriously, PayPal was implicated/named as being a funds conduit at one time, aside from their controversy in seizing donations to Wikileaks at one point. They are protecting their business model and shareholders while appearing patriotic which is major kudos and very important in the USA where again, it's all taken terribly seriously.

A complete farce I know, it was for a Persian Jar Badger Brush for the absolutely preposterous sum of $55.00. However that is the immediate danger to our privacy and failing of keyword analysis when it comes to communications - the algorithm or more correctly dictionary world analysis is incapable of ascertaining meaning and context of a word, it can only detect the word itself.
Click to expand...

So does this mean you didn't get my email about your APR splashes being the BOMB and how you should go on a JIHAD against bad aftershaves which suggested that the big companies where like TERRORISTS with their inferior products inflicting MASS shaving CASUALTIES on newbies?
 
When I was looking for a Stealth Slant I had a guy on YKW insisting on me paying via friends and family, When I said I would rather pay goods and services and pay all of the fees myself he got sketchy about going ahead. When I queried him on that he claimed that he was concerned that I was trying to rip him off LOL. Obviously I did not go ahead. One can only be too careful.

Around here I am more than comfortable to use friends and family for the most part.
 
Mark1966 said:
So does this mean you didn't get my email about your APR splashes being the BOMB and how you should go on a JIHAD against bad aftershaves which suggested that the big companies where like TERRORISTS with their inferior products inflicting MASS shaving CASUALTIES on newbies?
Click to expand...

No, just checked my mail-server incoming rules. You are still blocked since the last time :P
 
todras said:
No, just checked my mail-server incoming rules. You are still blocked since the last time :p
Click to expand...

Ahh, OK, so just that I'm a smuck nothing more then :)
 
Th trick here is that the funds need to be sourced freom PP balance, or a bank account or you will incur the fees.
 
As previously stated, rather than provide personal information, I'd prefer to pay the sale price plus 2.6% plus $0.30 to cover the fee for the vendor.
For my $35 purchase, the fee payable would have been $35 x 2.6% = $0.91 cents + $0.30 = $1.21 which I would gladly pay to preserve my privacy. Those who wish to contribute to their personal details to the wuhwuhwuh for all time are free to do so!
 
Becephalus said:
As previously stated, rather than provide personal information, I'd prefer to pay the sale price plus 2.6% plus $0.30 to cover the fee for the vendor.
For my $35 purchase, the fee payable would have been $35 x 2.6% = $0.91 cents + $0.30 = $1.21 which I would gladly pay to preserve my privacy. Those who wish to contribute to their personal details to the wuhwuhwuh for all time are free to do so!
Click to expand...
I generally find the fees are more than that. The online "fee calculators" do not appear to be accurate either. I inadvertently short paid a gentleman around $3 USD on a $350 transaction the other week because I used a fee calculator that was not accurate.
 
nsavage said:
I generally find the fees are more than that. The online "fee calculators" do not appear to be accurate either. I inadvertently short paid a gentleman around $3 USD on a $350 transaction the other week because I used a fee calculator that was not accurate.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between the fee percentages for the same currency and for international transactions - I think it is 3.6% internationally (i.e. when a currency exchange is required) rather than 2.6% and this is in addition to the margin on the exchange rates.
 
todras said:
Firstly, PayPal are known for their bastardry. Let's get that out the way first so there can be no misunderstanding as to my position.

Unfortunately in Australia, contained in the ACL and further provided for also the Contracts Act there is a concept of 'implied terms' in addition to the (express terms) i.e. the terms of service as @Mark1966 has correctly pointed out. As suggested, the comment line on a funds transfer is used by PayPal to scan for purchases, or investigation (my purchase of a Persian Brush) from a fellow member was flagged for 'political persons' investigation for 3 days, my account was locked pending the outcome of the investigation - I sent them a link to Simpsons Brushes of the UK and told them to stop being so bloody stupid and they unfroze my funds and account.

Now in this instance PayPal can quite correctly rely on their Terms and Conditions of use, but further to this there is an implied term that while not specifically contracted (You and Paypal) by usage of their financial transfer platform you know, or should reasonably know that a breach of their T&C's that are explicitly stated will result in the application of a tariff. They do not need to advise you of the application of this tariff, the method for determining it, or that it has occurred as a function of a transaction deemed to be a purchase or sale.

As I said, PayPal bastardry.
Click to expand...
Also lets not omit from the charge of bastardy, that they're NOT regulated by ANY financial industry!

Mark1966 said:
So does this mean you didn't get my email about your APR splashes being the BOMB and how you should go on a JIHAD against bad aftershaves which suggested that the big companies where like TERRORISTS with their inferior products inflicting MASS shaving CASUALTIES on newbies?
Click to expand...
If your aim is to make it upon all teh watchlists, you're going about it the right way :P
 
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