I have a 1/100 scale en route. Weight of EO is clearly the way to go. I will do that in the future. How do you stir the EO through the soap? That seemed to be quite difficult.
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DIY Homemade Shaving Soap
- Thread starter Nick the Knife
- Start date
I've only ever done CP soap and there's no difference when you add the EO/FO as the saponification occurs over 48-72hrs....so I put it in with the oils - as you're right it's a bitch to mix in if you leave it till they're partially saponified.
Hence your idea of adding the EO/FO to the superfatting oil/butter, which you then add post-trace is a really good one as that should work like a carrier oil and make it a LOT easier to incorporate into the by then fully saponified soap. So great idea!
bald as
ARKO! dealer & walking ECG
@Nick the Knife EO's with hot process must be added as the soap is cooling at the very end of the process otherwise the temperature of the cooking soap will drive off most if not all of your E oils. I think it is when the soap has cooled to about 60 - 70c. With the shaving soap saponification, due to the hot process and the stearic acid content can be finished in as little as 30 minutes. I cook my soap for 60 to 90 minutes. Shaving soaps aren't necessarily much like other soaps. 
they do have the word soap in them though.
Steve
they do have the word soap in them though.Steve
Bald Diddy V.2
BD Labs were a hive of activity again today. The base formula was altered, for research purposes, to the following:
stearic acid...44%
olive oil......36%
castor oil.....20%
glycerine......to 20% of total oil weight
This ratio puts the balance of saturated/unsaturated fatty acids squarely at 50/50. The regular base (which is super stable, lathers easily, has great glide, etc.) has a 55/45 ratio in favour of saturated fatty acids. We went into this knowing there would be a good chance of failure. As the amount of olive oil increases, the stability of the lather will decrease. We hypothesised that if this formula did prove to be stable, its slickness & post-shave properties should be superb given the abundance of olive oil. There will be a point though where there is simply too much olive oil. Where that point is is the big question.
Hydroxides were left at 50/50. Batch size was increased so that three 100 g pucks could be formed. In actuality, two pucks ended up at ~90 g and one at ~120 g. The two smaller pucks were left unscented. Twenty drops (0.5 g) of organic Atlas cedarwood essential oil were well mixed in to the largest puck.
Initial thoughts
Scent
Olive oil shaving soaps smell absolutely good enough to eat. Increasing the amount of olive oil to 36% has amplified the delicious nutty aroma. The cedarwood one is outstanding. There is a lovely synergy between the woodiness of the cedar and the nuttiness of the olive. Off the puck, the scent strength seems about right. I'll reserve judgement until I shave with it though.
Lather
I haven't had a chance to test lather the soap yet. Altering the ratio has had a significant impact on the time it takes for the soap to set. All three pucks look like they could do with an extra hour or two of cooling time. (NB: the 50/30/20 ratio sets almost instantly.)
BD Labs were a hive of activity again today. The base formula was altered, for research purposes, to the following:
stearic acid...44%
olive oil......36%
castor oil.....20%
glycerine......to 20% of total oil weight
This ratio puts the balance of saturated/unsaturated fatty acids squarely at 50/50. The regular base (which is super stable, lathers easily, has great glide, etc.) has a 55/45 ratio in favour of saturated fatty acids. We went into this knowing there would be a good chance of failure. As the amount of olive oil increases, the stability of the lather will decrease. We hypothesised that if this formula did prove to be stable, its slickness & post-shave properties should be superb given the abundance of olive oil. There will be a point though where there is simply too much olive oil. Where that point is is the big question.
Hydroxides were left at 50/50. Batch size was increased so that three 100 g pucks could be formed. In actuality, two pucks ended up at ~90 g and one at ~120 g. The two smaller pucks were left unscented. Twenty drops (0.5 g) of organic Atlas cedarwood essential oil were well mixed in to the largest puck.
Initial thoughts
Scent
Olive oil shaving soaps smell absolutely good enough to eat. Increasing the amount of olive oil to 36% has amplified the delicious nutty aroma. The cedarwood one is outstanding. There is a lovely synergy between the woodiness of the cedar and the nuttiness of the olive. Off the puck, the scent strength seems about right. I'll reserve judgement until I shave with it though.
Lather
I haven't had a chance to test lather the soap yet. Altering the ratio has had a significant impact on the time it takes for the soap to set. All three pucks look like they could do with an extra hour or two of cooling time. (NB: the 50/30/20 ratio sets almost instantly.)
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Hurdle one negotiated - we have stability!
T0
T+5
T+10
Very encouraging indeed. The next soap needs to be 40/40/20 olive/stearic/castor. Can't wait to shave with this one tonight.
T0
T+5
T+10
Very encouraging indeed. The next soap needs to be 40/40/20 olive/stearic/castor. Can't wait to shave with this one tonight.
As noted in my SOTD, it's a good, user-friendly soap. I had enough stable lather to do two passes with the kamisori plus a touch up pass.
Future experiments
stearic/olive/castor (40/40/20)
stearic/olive/castor (45/40/15)
stearic/olive/castor (55/30/15)
Future experiments
stearic/olive/castor (40/40/20)
stearic/olive/castor (45/40/15)
stearic/olive/castor (55/30/15)
@khun_diddy , just out of curiousity have you given thought to using Coconut Oil in your soap in lieu of some/or all of the Olive oil? Now the reason I suggest this is that Coconut oil is used by nearly every single soap maker - from MdC to Arko - so it's got something going for it.
I know you have done some blends using Olive oil and these worked well for you but IMHO before you completely commit to the Olive oil path I'd trial Coconut atleast to some degree in the blend. The whole Olive oil thing developed from @roger 's desire to use nothing nothing but Olive oil in his shaving soap - and well as was flagged initially by onlookers this didn't end overly well - and shaving soap makers very rarely use it, which in itself is notable as I'm sure they did this for good reason.
Now I'm not trying to get you to throw the baby out with the bathwater as you've found that Olive Oil works well for you BUT I'd respectfully suggest tweaking things by incorporating CO to some degree. As while your current formulations are good, who's to say you can't elevate this to great? If nothing else I'd look at it and think there must be a pretty good reason CO is in basically every single shaving soap. Anyway, great work and following your progress keenly.
I know you add a fair bit of glycerin post -trace, what temp do you like to allow the soap to cool to before you add this? Again much thanks for your feedback in this thread....IMHO the fact that very high quality shaving soap is being knocked out by members is one of the most exciting developments in recent times, so well done.
I know you have done some blends using Olive oil and these worked well for you but IMHO before you completely commit to the Olive oil path I'd trial Coconut atleast to some degree in the blend. The whole Olive oil thing developed from @roger 's desire to use nothing nothing but Olive oil in his shaving soap - and well as was flagged initially by onlookers this didn't end overly well - and shaving soap makers very rarely use it, which in itself is notable as I'm sure they did this for good reason.
Now I'm not trying to get you to throw the baby out with the bathwater as you've found that Olive Oil works well for you BUT I'd respectfully suggest tweaking things by incorporating CO to some degree. As while your current formulations are good, who's to say you can't elevate this to great? If nothing else I'd look at it and think there must be a pretty good reason CO is in basically every single shaving soap.
Anyway, great work and following your progress keenly. Hi Steve, thanks pal but I don't believe I said anything to the contrary to this on when @khun_diddy should add his EO....in fact I said exactly this. FWIW is there a particular reason why you've chosen not to manually 'select' your superfatting oil/butter by adding it post-trace? Seems a possible HP-value add you could be exploiting.
I know you add a fair bit of glycerin post -trace, what temp do you like to allow the soap to cool to before you add this? Again much thanks for your feedback in this thread....IMHO the fact that very high quality shaving soap is being knocked out by members is one of the most exciting developments in recent times, so well done.
From what I gather, olive oil & coconut oil are polar opposites. OO = wet skin feel & crappy lather; CO = dry skin feel & awesome lather. The ultimate CO soap is, of course, MdC. I haven't tried the real deal but I've tried ultra-high CO content clones. I actually don't mind the dryness but I much prefer the wetness of OO. CO soaps give me a 'neutral' post-shave feel; OO soaps give me a 'replenished' post-shave feel.@khun_diddy , just out of curiousity have you given thought to using Coconut Oil in your soap in lieu of some/or all of the Olive oil? Now the reason I suggest this is that Coconut oil is used by nearly every single soap maker - from MdC to Arko - so it's got something going for it.
I know you have done some blends using Olive oil and these worked well for you but IMHO before you completely commit to the Olive oil path I'd trial Coconut atleast to some degree in the blend. The whole Olive oil thing developed from @roger 's desire to use nothing nothing but Olive oil in his shaving soap - and well as was flagged initially by onlookers this didn't end overly well - and shaving soap makers very rarely use it, which in itself is notable as I'm sure they did this for good reason.
Now I'm not trying to get you to throw the baby out with the bathwater as you've found that Olive Oil works well for you BUT I'd respectfully suggest tweaking things by incorporating CO to some degree. As while your current formulations are good, who's to say you can't elevate this to great? If nothing else I'd look at it and think there must be a pretty good reason CO is in basically every single shaving soap.
Hi Steve, thanks pal but I don't believe I said anything to the contrary to this on when @khun_diddy should add his EO....in fact I said exactly this. FWIW is there a particular reason why you've chosen not to manually 'select' your superfatting oil/butter by adding it post-trace? Seems a possible HP-value add you could be exploiting.
I know you add a fair bit of glycerin post -trace, what temp do you like to allow the soap to cool to before you add this? Again much thanks for your feedback in this thread....IMHO the fact that very high quality shaving soap is being knocked out by members is one of the most exciting developments in recent times, so well done.
I have thought about incorporating some CO into our formula and I definitely will at some point. I'll end up making many different iterations in my quest for the ultimate shaving soap. Keep in mind though that I'm searching for the ultimate shaving soap for my particular skin type and shaving style. I believe others will like it too but that's not the aim.
Firstly, I want to put an upper bound on OO content through experimentation. Roger's is definitely too high (for me) at 80%. Yesterday's formulation may end up being the highest it can go at 36%. Some time in the next couple of weeks I'll attempt 40%. If it's a failure then I have found my limit. If it's not (unlikely), I'll push on to 44%. And so on.
Let's say the upper bound is 36%. Then I will start tweaking the castor. Instead of 44/36/20, I'll try 48/36/16 (I have a good feeling about that one). Then I'll try 52/36/12. Etc.
Once I feel I have found the ideal stearic/olive/castor ratio, I'll play with coconut. Let's say it turns out to be 48/36/16 - I'll replace 4% of castor with 4% of CO to give 48/36/12/4. Etc. As I understand it, castor and coconut are doing much the same thing in the soap. Both increase lather. Coconut does a better job but castor has humectant properties. Also worth considering, coconut gives a harder puck.
Once I settle on oil ratios, say 48/36/12/4 (has a nice ring to it), I'll experiment with lye ratios. Right now, we are using 50/50 for convenience's sake but I can already tell that ideally, the balance should be changed to favour potassium.
Concurrently with all of this, I'll be playing around with EO blends and strengths. We also need to look at sodium lactate, lanolin, jojoba oil superfat, etc. Whatever happens, I'll document it all here. The whole process will take a year or more to complete.
Thanks very much for your suggestions, they're really appreciated. Please keep them coming.
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Ginge
Member
Love reading about everyone's successes and blends keep up the great work
I make my own balms and while doing research, read that people where having success using a percentage of hemp oil and it was great for those that may have sensitive skin
just thought I'd throw it out there, no I haven't made any soaps as of yet but it is something that I would think of doing in the future
Look forward to seeing how your different blends work out
cheers
I make my own balms and while doing research, read that people where having success using a percentage of hemp oil and it was great for those that may have sensitive skin
just thought I'd throw it out there, no I haven't made any soaps as of yet but it is something that I would think of doing in the future
Look forward to seeing how your different blends work out
cheers
Yes, I will be getting some hemp oil in my next order. Cheers for the suggestion!
alfredus
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That's fantastic news @khun_diddy and I am very much looking forward to the outcomes of your experiments.
FYI: I think Mike's uses very little CO in his formula and Mystic Waters (which I just ordered) none. I think you are definitely on the right track with that!
FYI: I think Mike's uses very little CO in his formula and Mystic Waters (which I just ordered) none. I think you are definitely on the right track with that!
FWIW before you go buying or adding exotic oils like hemp to your products it always pays to know exactly what type of shelf life the oil you're using has.
Many of the exotic oils have VERY short shelf lives....and thats from the day they're manufactured, not when you receive them or when they're packaged. So if you're going to go down this path I'd be careful lest you end up with your product ending up smelling like rancid oil in a few months (Hemp oil has a shelf life as short as 1-2mths at room temp depending on whose definition you believe).
Use of such oils may mean you have to consider using preservatives to prevent them from going rancid. Anyway like I said I go to the trouble of mentioning this only so you don't end up with an expensive rancid mess so see how you go.
Many of the exotic oils have VERY short shelf lives....and thats from the day they're manufactured, not when you receive them or when they're packaged. So if you're going to go down this path I'd be careful lest you end up with your product ending up smelling like rancid oil in a few months (Hemp oil has a shelf life as short as 1-2mths at room temp depending on whose definition you believe).
Use of such oils may mean you have to consider using preservatives to prevent them from going rancid. Anyway like I said I go to the trouble of mentioning this only so you don't end up with an expensive rancid mess so see how you go.
I repackaged one of the V2 Unscented pucks this morning by melting it down in a water bath and adding a dollop of lanolin & 20 drops of patchouli dark EO (one drop per 4.5 grams of soap). This is mainly a fact finding mission to judge scent potency, patchouli's ability to mask lanolin's distinctive scent, etc. I'll deal with blends and so forth once I have a good feel for overall potency of the various EOs.
When it has cooled sufficiently I'll give it a lather.
When it has cooled sufficiently I'll give it a lather.
borked
Shave, collect B&M pokemon, vodka, sleep, repeat
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Coconut oil, I find as an aftershave, works quite well.
The raw ingredient though, solidifies in Sydney during winter and only has came back to a liquid form in the last few weeks.
Might find it liquefies in a soap in higher concentrations, yet nowhere near experienced enough to afford a definitive answer upon this.
The raw ingredient though, solidifies in Sydney during winter and only has came back to a liquid form in the last few weeks.
Might find it liquefies in a soap in higher concentrations, yet nowhere near experienced enough to afford a definitive answer upon this.
Bald Diddy V3
Steve came over to make soap. This time I did most of the cooking (with my wife doing the dangerous bits) and Steve mostly mentored and did the odd bit of stirring.
Good bits: The latest formula may be the best yet. The lather is off the hook!
Bad bits: The recipe was for a batch weight of 240 g but the finished product in fact weighed ~340 g. Hmmm... I remember being super accurate with all my measurements. Ah ha, the scale was set to 'dwt', not 'g'! I'm 99% sure that all the measurements were done on the wrong setting, so I think the soap would be safe to use, but I won't use it for anything other than test lathers.
It's unfortunate because the scent strengths were off.
Original: 16 drops of cedarwood EO in 234 g of soap (1 drop per 14.5 g) is far too little scent.
Classic: 16 drops of patchouli EO and 4 drops of lavender EO in 103 g of soap seemed a tad strong (I like mildly scented soaps). The lather never went on my face so I can't be sure.
Lesson learned & more data points obtained. I'll be up at the crack of dawn tomorrow making another batch.
Steve came over to make soap. This time I did most of the cooking (with my wife doing the dangerous bits) and Steve mostly mentored and did the odd bit of stirring.
Good bits: The latest formula may be the best yet. The lather is off the hook!
Bad bits: The recipe was for a batch weight of 240 g but the finished product in fact weighed ~340 g. Hmmm... I remember being super accurate with all my measurements. Ah ha, the scale was set to 'dwt', not 'g'! I'm 99% sure that all the measurements were done on the wrong setting, so I think the soap would be safe to use, but I won't use it for anything other than test lathers.
It's unfortunate because the scent strengths were off.
Original: 16 drops of cedarwood EO in 234 g of soap (1 drop per 14.5 g) is far too little scent.
Classic: 16 drops of patchouli EO and 4 drops of lavender EO in 103 g of soap seemed a tad strong (I like mildly scented soaps). The lather never went on my face so I can't be sure.
Lesson learned & more data points obtained. I'll be up at the crack of dawn tomorrow making another batch.
@khun_diddy , I've just been doing some reading up as I'm having a chat with a HP Guru later today - FWIW the info I've found is that scents in HP should generally be added at half the amount usually used in CP. CP's gold standard is 0.5oz/ppo (per pound of oils) - so run the math on this to equate to metric. You need a tad more for citrus based scents. Also just make sure you're letting the cooked HP mix get down to below 60-65C, to avoid losing oils via their flashpoint.
On a sidenote, through reading up last night it became clear that the commonly available Stearic Acid isn't infact all Stearic acid.....its actually a Stearic acid rich mix. This explains it better than I can.
Cut a long story short I compared the listed melting point for the Stearic Acid from Escentials of Australia against proper (90%+ pure SA) and it's definitely NOT this (EoA list the MP at 130F, SA is ~160F). Hence I'd be almost certain it's the same as the product mentioned in the link. It's not a huge issue but if you're using ~50% 'Stearic Acid' then your superfat is actually going to be ~2.7% higher than you intended! There's a bit of a workaround listed in the article.....anyway something to be aware of. Is a shame that the Stearic Acid isn't better labelled at EoA.
On a sidenote, through reading up last night it became clear that the commonly available Stearic Acid isn't infact all Stearic acid.....its actually a Stearic acid rich mix. This explains it better than I can.
Cut a long story short I compared the listed melting point for the Stearic Acid from Escentials of Australia against proper (90%+ pure SA) and it's definitely NOT this (EoA list the MP at 130F, SA is ~160F). Hence I'd be almost certain it's the same as the product mentioned in the link. It's not a huge issue but if you're using ~50% 'Stearic Acid' then your superfat is actually going to be ~2.7% higher than you intended! There's a bit of a workaround listed in the article.....anyway something to be aware of. Is a shame that the Stearic Acid isn't better labelled at EoA.
Very interesting link. I would't be at all surprised if the Escentials stuff is the less pure gear as it's crazy cheap. I've just checked the label on the bag and it says 'octadecanoic acid' but makes no mention of the shorter FAs. I'll fire off an email to Escentials and report back when I hear from them.
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Fantastic article @Nick the Knife !!! There are other geeks out there which makes me feel a lot better 
I think the main point of this article is, that once you have a great formulation - the next big problem is getting consistently the same ingredients. I think a lot of you noticed Rod & Mandy's problem this year at Stirling and I am sure they are not the only ones...
I think the main point of this article is, that once you have a great formulation - the next big problem is getting consistently the same ingredients. I think a lot of you noticed Rod & Mandy's problem this year at Stirling and I am sure they are not the only ones...