Knives & Knife sharpening

[Pjotr]

Here's my rag tag herd of knives.

From left to right:

Robert Herder paring knife. Carbon steel, extremely thin and insanely sharp.

Robert Herder paring knife | EdenWebshops.co.uk

Opinel pocket knife. Use it for gruntier paring knife duties such as attacking hard fruit, peeling ginger etc. Carbon steel. Great knife. Was given it by a fishing mate.

Opinel Classic Originals Locking Knives No.6VRN-No.12VRN

Dexter Russell filleting knife. Found it stuck in a jarrah beam of an abatoir scheduled for demolition about ten odd years ago. Only yesterday, after having oiled the handle, found the makers name on it. Pretty rough looking handle but an incredibly thin flexible carbon steel blade, ideal for filleting and skinning small fish. They still make'm and if you're ever lucky enough to use one you'll know why.

Dexter Russell Green River Filleting Knife 20cm. Buy Dexter Russell products online in Australia and save!

Traditional bone handled carving knife. Carbon steel of course.

ICEL chef's knife. Probably the knife I use most. Stainless steel, middle of the range pricewise. Great weight and balance. Am replacing it with my new Japanese Tojiro knife. Will have to wait for Christmas before I can properly test that one out..

ICEL chopper. Purely by accident it's also ICEL. Have had a few other ones in the past. This one's got the nicest balance and weight. Don't actually use it that often.

Then a bigger filleting knife which is stainless, and way too soft (in my experience if stainless is long thin and flexible it's generally too soft to hold a decent edge). Bit of doozy really. Don't use it enough to worry too much.

Then another carving knife which belongs to my son and needs a bit of attention. Will be the first knife I restore when I get the edge faux wonder sharpener.

 

[eggbert]

I just had a knife seized by customs.

I was looking for a folding knife to go with the camping equipment for when I go away on field trips.

Did a lot of research on the internet, and decided that the Ontario Rat -1 Black handles - Urban Conquest - (Powered by CubeCart) was the knife for me as it seemed to offer good value for a quality knife.

I saw a few different Aussie stores online selling the knife, but ordering from the US was much, much cheaper, so I opted for that.

Bad call on my part. It was only after I placed the order that I saw that our customs consider it to be a flick (or one handed opening) knife, and that if they saw it there was a high likelihood of it being seized.

I can understand that, and have no (well only a few small grumbling) issues about it, except for the fact that there are Aussie retailers offering the same knife, just at a highly distorted price.

How does that work?


Also in theory my Leatherman Wave should have also been seized as it advertises that it has "One-hand Opening Blades", and could also quite easily fail their gravity opening or flick test.



/edit I just realised I could have posted this in the rant thread.

 

[Mark1966]

I just had a knife seized by customs.

...

Bad call on my part. It was only after I placed the order that I saw that our customs consider it to be a flick (or one handed opening) knife, and that if they saw it there was a high likelihood of it being seized.

I can understand that, and have no (well only a few small grumbling) issues about it, except for the fact that there are Aussie retailers offering the same knife, just at a highly distorted price.

How does that work?
...

WHAT! This is stupid. Maybe you should have imported a container load and it would be OK. Send Customs links to the Aussie retailers and ask how come it is OK for them to sell them.

 

[Nick the Knife]

Ouch, expensive-ish one.

Good luck talking with Customs, I found them reasonable but not open to debating their definitions etc. I had ~12 asian cheapies (Boker replicas) confiscated that were Xmas gifts for male employees at a company I was managing. The Customs official was very good at explaining things but you'll get no love from them.

I think you'll find other importers might have agents helping them or atleast presenting products to Customs to get their approval before they bring a load of them in - lil importers like us don't have the benefits of this kind of thing. They've really cracked down in the 'flick/gravity' knives recently.

 

[Mark1966]

...Good luck talking with Customs, I found them reasonable but not open to debating their definitions etc. I had ~12 asian cheapies (Boker replicas) confiscated that were Xmas gifts for male employees at a company I was managing. The Customs official was very good at explaining things but you'll get no love from them...

BTW - I wasn't suggesting that pointing out to Customs the inconsistency would make any difference. Living in CBR though you have to take all and any opportunity to point out the idiocy of public service rules.

 

[eggbert]

If I challenge the decision their seizure notice says that they *will* attempt to prosecute me. Not much I can do, and too expensive to get it sent back to the retailer. i guess I will just have to chalk this one down to experience.

Anyone got any recommendations for good folding knives that either aren't flickable or can be bought in Aus?

If it had come through customs in Darwin I might have been ok, as their office is right next door to ours, and I get on ok with some of them. But this went through Sydney, and I guess they will be less lenient than a small town up North where the bloody thing might be of some actual use.

 

[Mark1966]

If I challenge the decision their seizure notice says that they *will* attempt to prosecute me. Not much I can do, and too expensive to get it sent back to the retailer. i guess I will just have to chalk this one down to experience...

Typical bullying tactics of the public 'service'!!!!!!

Sometimes I feel I'm slowly being strangled here in CBR ...

 

[Pjotr]

........Anyone got any recommendations for good folding knives that either aren't flickable or can be bought in Aus?.......

Opinel. Classic old fashioned french pocket/folding knife. You can get them in SS or carbon steel. They've got a very nifty ferrule which locks them closed or more importantly, to anybody who's ever had a pocket knife fold in on itself during use, open. They're also razor sharp and as easy as hell to keep that way (at least the carbon steel one is).

http://www.bronzemoonoutdoors.com.au/online-shop/opinel

 

[Nick the Knife]

Sharpened up the Tojiro Shirogami Gyuto.....after marking and checking each side on my highest grit stones to find what angle they'd put on them it was evident they were ~10 degrees on each side!!! So 20degrees inclusive! Quite extreme.

So I took it to exactly 10 degrees and gave it a little going over with my 400/600/1200 congress stones. Made sure I put a strip of masking tape on each side to prevent scouring/scratching up each side of the knife.

My technique was a little rough as the knife is quite large - but anyway in the end the results were very good - even though I'm sure I could do a lot better.

Definitely up a grade or two in sharpness.....tested by dropping a capsicum onto it from ~20-30cm above the knife....clean in half! A patina is already slowly forming on the knife, will have to monitor how that goes....avoiding acidic foods until I've got something solid in place.

 

[Pjotr]

Sharpened up the Tojiro Shirogami Gyuto.....after marking and checking each side on my highest grit stones to find what angle they'd put on them it was evident they were ~10 degrees on each side!!! So 20degrees inclusive! Quite extreme.

So I took it to exactly 10 degrees and gave it a little going over with my 400/600/1200 congress stones. Made sure I put a strip of masking tape on each side to prevent scouring/scratching up each side of the knife.

My technique was a little rough as the knife is quite large - but anyway in the end the results were very good - even though I'm sure I could do a lot better.

Definitely up a grade or two in sharpness.....tested by dropping a capsicum onto it from ~20-30cm above the knife....clean in half! A patina is already slowly forming on the knife, will have to monitor how that goes....avoiding acidic foods until I've got something solid in place.

Ten degrees, given that most knives are twentyish, is pretty extreme.

 

[eggbert]

Sharpened up the Tojiro Shirogami Gyuto.....after marking and checking each side on my highest grit stones to find what angle they'd put on them it was evident they were ~10 degrees on each side!!! So 20degrees inclusive! Quite extreme.

So I took it to exactly 10 degrees and gave it a little going over with my 400/600/1200 congress stones. Made sure I put a strip of masking tape on each side to prevent scouring/scratching up each side of the knife.

My technique was a little rough as the knife is quite large - but anyway in the end the results were very good - even though I'm sure I could do a lot better.

Definitely up a grade or two in sharpness.....tested by dropping a capsicum onto it from ~20-30cm above the knife....clean in half! A patina is already slowly forming on the knife, will have to monitor how that goes....avoiding acidic foods until I've got something solid in place.

Apparently "Ten degrees, given that most knives are twentyish, is pretty extreme."

 

[Pjotr]

Apparently "Ten degrees, given that most knives are twentyish, is pretty extreme."

Allright! I removed the double post. It's still true though!

 

[Pjotr]

Just received the edge pro. Not sure yet. It's definately value for money. I'll have to play around with it for a while.

 

[eggbert]

I've still not tried mine yet.

 

[Pjotr]

I've still not tried mine yet.

It's OK for your average stainless kitchen knife. I doubt I'll use it on a Japanese knife. So, I'm getting geared up for the traditional method. Found this stone in a Carbatec woodworking shop which also has other finer stones. Serious chunk of stone and it cost less then anything I could find online. It'll be interesting. The advantage over my other strones is that these are specifically for knives and they're nice and big.

 

[Mark1966]

It's OK for your average stainless kitchen knife.

It is great for a dweeb like me with no skill!

 

[Mong.]

It's OK for your average stainless kitchen knife. I doubt I'll use it on a Japanese knife.

What makes you disinclined to use it on the Jap ones? I was planning on getting both an edge faux and a Tojiro gyuto, so I'm curious.

 

[Nick the Knife]

It's OK for your average stainless kitchen knife. I doubt I'll use it on a Japanese knife. So, I'm getting geared up for the traditional method. Found this stone in a Carbatec woodworking shop which also has other finer stones. Serious chunk of stone and it cost less then anything I could find online. It'll be interesting. The advantage over my other strones is that these are specifically for knives and they're nice and big.
View attachment 349View attachment 350

Yes, I have to second that I'd be interested in your rationale for this.

IMHO there's absolutely zero reason for not using a system like this on almost any knife, regardless of its origin, steel, blade geometry etc. In fact on the contrary I'd be MORE inclined to ensure that if I had a Japanese origin knife (which generally are of higher value and also higher hardness steel e.g HRC58+) I'd do on a precision system like this than freehanding on whetstones or using other less precise systems.

Furthermore often Japanese knives have more complex blade geometry than western knives (which almost exclusively have a 50:50 cutting edge on them) -, Jap knives often having single bevels or double bevels of non-50:50 proportions e.g 80:20.

If the reservation is based on the quality of the OEM stones I'd think this again isn't going to be an issue - you'll just be working longer to get results. One can easily buy replacement stones for this system that are the best quality polishing stones available to any consumers e.g Shapton, Chosera. Really you're only limited by your imagination as to the polishing surface you can use as there's even glass mounted diamond abrasives and even various leathers mounted on glass with abrasive compounds applied to act as strops.

A number of 'sharpening' and knife publications have given this system (well the authentic one) their top rating for any sharpening system on the market.

So I am completely adament that there's absolutely no viable reason why any particular knives cannot be sharpened on it the system - in fact the ONLY ones I know which have issues are HIGHLY curves knives, such as the Nepalese Kukri.

I know some people just prefer to hand sharpen on whetstones and you can get great results this way, so perhaps what you're saying is just more of a personal preference rather than having some actual fundamental issue with this system and a Jap knife? Just seems others have misconstrued this.

FWIW yes, the King whestones are regarded as good 'value' level Jap whetstones. There's a nice COMBO one that King does (one different grit on each side of the stone)...it's a 1000/6000 from memory. Postage from Japanese does make them a lil expensive due to their significant weight.

 

[Pjotr]

What makes you disinclined to use it on the Jap ones? I was planning on getting both an edge faux and a Tojiro gyuto, so I'm curious.

Mainly the size of the knives compared to the size of the stone. I'd use it for smaller knives. But there are plenty of people that are happy to use it on whatever knife they've got. Of course it's frowned upon by the traditionalists but that's to be expected and not where I'm coming from. Also I feel using stones to sharpen knives is a skill I should have given the number of tools I've traditionally had to keep sharp. I like the look and feel of the stones too. Lastly I'm also considering buying a single bevel vegetable knife (usuba) and, although I'm sure people have used an edge faux for this, I can't imagine it really doing the job particularly with regards the flat side. And, finally, it gives me an excuse to buy nice gear. And finally, finally, I needed a new stone for all my carpentry tools and was looking round anyhow. I'm not using this for anything but knives but it seems like a good excuse.

What I know about knife sharpening using stones can be written on the back of a postage stamp with a large felt tipped pen, so don't pay much attention to my reasons for not using an edge faux. I might give up in disgust and become an edge faux freak.

You looking at the Bluewayjapan site? Unfortunately there's not much else out there that'll import/export to Australia for reasonable postage.

 

[SmallYetDeadly]

18 more days until i can unwrap my edge-faux and have at it.

What size knife is good for learning. A little parer or something around 4"?