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Review: Lather for Shaver Heaven Soaps

@Anthony
Re the blams, stick with it until you get it right, then play around with scents :)
Same approach with soaps.
Get the basics exceeding your expectations, then expand upon that.

As for @Monsta_AU 's post, until we as consumers are willing to break the consumerism cycle, nothing will change, as profit reigns supreme.
 
Monsta_AU said:
. I like shaving, and I like Orangutans. They seem alright, never did anything nasty to me so I hope they can continue to do their thing. I hope that members here can consider all impacts on issues like these, make up their own minds and then not criticise others for taking a different view.
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And I like shaving orangutans
 
Hey guys... I have a video demo of my soft soap and cream (which isnt currently available) for sale uploading to youtube now.. Not too sure if I'm allowed to post the link... but I'll share with you guys once it's completed (and appologise in advance if I'm not allowed to post the link).

Look forward to @filobiblic review when he gets time :-) I felt wierd doing my own, but it's just a "Demo"....
 
Wow - what's a great discussion between "gentlemen" without threats of guns being drawn or anybody banned - P&C rocks!!!!
 
@Anthony , good work on the video, it comes across well and I think you did a good and impartial demo of your product.

That said and please take this with a grain (or shaker) of salt - but I think one of the common tricks that artisan producers of any product fall into is tailoring their product too much to their own personal tastes and not those of their target demographic. I'm sure you know I mean NO offence at all but I am sure you are a big fan of high quality shaving soaps yourself and aspire to have people associate your products with the MdC, B&M's etc of the soap world. Berry Delicious, Choc Mint and a few others strike me as very different to the scents I'd expect your target demographic to be compelled to try. Again don't get me wrong someone like @Drubbing might oddly love Berry Delicious but he's got to buy it to find out and I fear your scents or a significant portion of them are not going to compel your target demographic.

Your logo, website font etc are all very masculine - which is logical as wet shaving is VERY heavily a male market (other artisan soap makers have openly griped that they can't attract females in vaguely decent numbers so anyone'd be very brave to think otherwise) - therefore personally I'd do whats worked for centuries - that is imitating what are proven winning scents/combos from other artisan makers. e.g a lot of the very good artisan makers have particular scents that are their flagship/most popular ones, obviously duplicating these is very hard BUT similar combos etc will surely resonate with prospective discerning buyers. And generally ALL your buyers will be discerning otherwise they'd be using goo in a can.

My only other feedback would be from your ingredients list alone I'd suspect your product could be quite drying etc on ones skin. Again please take this with a massive amount of respect but I tend to think that if your ingredients are compared to a few of the USA based artisan makers there's scope to work on your base forumulation to make it more attractive to prospective buyers and also a superior product.

What I mean by this is what does the average person here know about Kokum Butter and Shea Butter etc? Prolly not much, but they perceive that they're going to be moistening on their skin and that it's BETTER to seek out a product that incorporates them. I mean you've seen the chat/discussion on here and the reality is that the average buyer here will be comparing your soaps to things like Mikes, B&M, Strop Shoppe, HTGAM etc and in lieu of having a lot of feedback how are they going to critique them (other than price)? Ingredients, so ask yourself if you were on the other side of the transaction based on looking at the ingredients which one would you buy?

As a maker you will be closer to knowing than me if these types of oils + butters will improve your product or are just perception BUT the latter is a very powerful thing. So I'd concur with an earlier poster who stated to focus on your base formulation as that will be the difference between a very good product and just another shave soap. NO shaving soap co ever got big just because their product smelt great, so I'd stick with a few core scents that broadly appeal (I know that is a tad boring as soapies tend to find the scent blending the most fun but its a distant secondary concern IMHO).

Also incorporation of menthol into shaving blends is a consistent proven winner for many artisan makers - plus it's simple and cost effective.

Again, I sincerely applaud you for your efforts. You seem a genuinely nice guy with a great approach to his products so I'd like to see you do well. If any of this jibber helps, great if not please understand its meant with the best of intentions. Cheers, Nick

PS. You've got to come up with a logo to put in your product's packaging somewhere. Could be something simple & easy (which can STILL BE GOOD!!!) to incorporate into what you're already going but when I look at your packaging it's just too generic. Looks to me like the tops of the lids are completely bare and so even an inked/painted stamp of an S intertwined with an H or a skull etc or Shaver Heaven in that nice gothic(?) font etc. But again thats just somethign that screams out at me. :)
 
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Not sure I agree with you about the the names @Nick the Knife . Yes, they may not appeal as much to the older generation such as yourself us (including you as you just joined the over 40s club), but I am sure there are those far more metro than us that would like something a bit different.

The berry one intrigues me (as long as it had a hit of menthol and a fairly strong scent) , but I wouldn't get the choc one as that sounds like a warming, winter soap/cream which for obvious reasons wouldn't suit me. Unfortunately for @Anthony I've currently got way too many soaps and creams and need to use a few up before they start separating in the Darwin heat.

I really liked the masculine T&H rose cream that went around in TP&CTB1, but wouldn't expect that to be for everyone, but I can't stand that feminine Arko odour.

I think it's a great idea to think outside the box, and offer something different than every other fougere, vetiver, lavendar, or sandalwood touting soapmaker is hawking.
 
Egg, you see the difference is that I wasn't attempting to give Anthony feedback to make his scents to MY tastes, rather so that they matched up with the greatest possible % of his target demographic. Selling a product SUCCESSFULLY is a numbers and %'s game, it's that simple - and I mean no offence by that but it is.

So I don't for a second question or deny that a Berry scented shaving soap/cream might appeal to you and many others BUT I would put it to you that if you did focus group testing on the demographic who even gets to Ant's website they're looking to buy one or two items - and the chances that a Berry scented one will be their preference is very low.

In business simple rules often hold a lot of weight and if no-one else is doing it there's probably a bloody good reason.

Oh come on, there is NO Aussie soap maker I'm aware of thats doing a fougere, vetiver etc type scents - and I think Ybbor had a very good suggestion about some Australian native scents that could possibly be incorporated to give a real point of difference - a masculine scent but with Australian flora native essential oils etc.

Please don't get me wrong however a single consumer or even a handful saying they'd like/be intrigued by any scent MEANS VERY little thats what stats/surveys etc can be completely misleading - the true and only real indicator is what people are plumping their money down for and historically with wetshaving products there's a well blazed path that takes a lot of guess work out.

To suggest otherwise is a tad insulting to the experience and knowledge (plus the counltess hidden hours of testing and feedback studies) that I am sure the established artisan soap makers put in and also just overly simplistic as different from the 'norm' doesn't make something better on that alone - you don't get to be 'the norm' unless quite a few of your qualities appeal.

I do understand where you're coming from and like I tried to state all this scent discussion is REALLY kinda stupid as if any of us want a smell that appeals we'd just spray our fave cologne on our soaps before use! So the soap has to be an all-round winner before the scent is really much of a factor.

So I do see your point however perhaps we can agree to disagree. :)

PS. Arko smells like lemon, lemon is feminine??? I'm not saying its masculine or that I like it but feminine it is not. Lemon cologne is a cultural thing for that entire region of the world, so I don't think you can with any credibility say thats its a female scent. Whereas berries are......well lets just say I'm not aware of them being a culturally significant scent.
 
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I was joking with the Arko comment - but my point is that the other general masculine smells are saturated in the market - one more is not going to make a ripple. Where something different may do so.

I don't see the point in making something if you are not bringing something new to the table, or reinventing something classic that has disappeared from the shelves. TOBS already make a bloody good xyz cream - why would you want to compete with that?

My example of bringing something new to the table is the Occam's Original - it's not the same as everything else, and had me going back to it several times to try and work out what the main element of the scent was.
 
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I agree with most of this discussion, hope it's constructive food for thought Anthony.

I might add a few cents, based only on my personal opinion.

The wet shaving market is a pretty high end market. I realise not everyone is spending a fortune, but I'd say it's a very discerning market.

You could produce some good soaps, but there has to be reasons to buy! There are many many excellent soaps. A point of difference is so very necessary. I think the australian theme would be great to pursue. A fresh snowy mountains scent would greatly appeal to me Ybbor! Or a sea breezy Bondi scent etc etc. it's just a point of difference.

Above all quality has to be a consistent message from product to marketing. Quality appeals to a discerning consumer that is paying a bit more. A simple line up of 6 Australian scents (even proven ones like NtK mentioned) that are quality in lather, scent, ingredients and packaging would make a compelling selling force.

I admire small business and entrepreneurship and know it's tough, and much easier to talk than do, so good on you for having a go!!

So if my ravings got to jumbled my message is.

Simple. Quality.
 
@Nick the Knife First off, let me thank you for taking the time to provide me with some constructive feedback. I really do appreciate it (honestly). Its one thing to say "Your soap is CR*P" and not say why. I'd be more interested in hearing why it didn't live up to the expectation and then see what I can do to correct it.

Let me start with the easiest to cover off.. the packaging.. Initially when I first started off, I blindly went and purchase plastic tubs.. this turned out to be a nightmare, as I didn't think of the opening to load up the brush, so I scrapped them and went for the tins. Which then turned out to prove to be another pain as some of them get to me damaged, or are damaged in transit. Today I had a shipment of 100 cardboard boxes for me to start shipping in and some void fill on the way to hopefully counteract the damage in transit. I felt that the tins were easily accessible for me personally and also do provide a wider opening to load the brush. Ideally I'd love to have a tin lik the HTGAM tins and thats something I am currently pursuing with contacts in the US and UK at the moment.

In regards to the scents, like @eggbert said, I, being an avid collector of shaving soaps and creams myself, tend to go for the products which are different.. for example, HTGAM Venitiver, HTGAM Cavendish, Cyril R Salter French Vetiver, etc. Thats not to say that I'm tired of the true and tried scents like bay rum, lime, rose, etc etc. But I wanted to try and offer something that the others didn't, as like you said, they appeal to me personally.
I totally understand what you mean though, as there are true and tried scents out there which all the main artisans tend to stick to and work off, however, I thought I was doing something right by offering the alternative to all those, but maybe the way forward is for me to focus on those tried and true scents and then get a name for myself before branching out in other weird and wonderful scents.
In regards to being more Aussie focused, I agree, and was actually thinking about that a few days ago. I was going to try an Eucalyptus and Menthol soap, but once again I let my personal tastes come into the picture. Generally, I'm not a fan of the eucalyptus scent so I scrapped that idea, but given the interest in more Aussie based scents, I may revisit it quite soon.

I think like many people starting out, I'm thinking too big and spreading myself thin on all aspects. Maybe I need to pull my head in and start focusing on a select few scents and build off that, so I thank you for voicing your opinion and for doing so in a constructive manner. As always I am happy to hear everyones thoughts, after all, I cant hope to be great at what I do if I don't listen to what people have to say.

No offence taken (y)
 
@eggbert Thanks for your kind comments. I appreciate it. I had the same thought process.. I thought do I just want to be another Artisan soap maker that just sticks to the true and tried scents, or do I want to offer something that no one else has done. I went with the later obviously, but because of such, I think there is a lot of hesitation to try new scents. I personally jump and the weird and wonderful scented soaps... Something that isn't your standard Lime, Bay Rum, etc. While I would love to make my own spin on it, I also like to dabble in the new and exciting, although I know that it's not everyones cup of tea...

As always, I truly am grateful for all the feedback I've received so far (both good and bad). I've taken it all on board, and sometimes tend to take it personally, however, its the only way I can become great at what I do... listen to the people and you will not disappoint.

I think the way forward would be for me to sit down and develop a soap that I can knock right out of the park and get people talking, from there, then I think thats the opportunity for me to start dabbling in other exciting scents.

Thanks once again guys! This is all good stuff and is ALWAYS welcome!
 
@Ybbor Thank you! I was thinking similar thing a few days back. Aussie scents.. something the other markets don't offer. Please leave it with me.... as always, scent is a very personal thing.. so what may smell like a walk in the Snowy Mountains may smell like rubbish to someone else.... I was personally working on a Ice Peppermint using Essential oils this time around, but Im not happy with the outcome. The soap smelt VERY similar to Proraso Green (infact if you took a smell with your eyes closed I'm sure you wouldnt tell them apart), however, I wasnt happy with the menthol "kick" so I've gone back to the drawing board.

@Nick the Knife My apologies, reading through your post, I forgot to address the ingredients list. I have those that contain Parabens in them, Tallow, etc. For me it comes down to scent and performance (just personal that is). I was also lucky enough to try our MCD yesterday (on loan from a friend) and they only had 3 ingredients listed... However, I will not pass judgment on a product based on their ingredients or how much they have listed. There are those who say "A soap isnt a soap unless it has tallow in it", and those that argue that the same can be achieved without using it (me being one of them). I also do not judge soaps based on their ingredients list, just performance and scent for me... My Soft Soaps Contain Stearic Acid, Coconut Oil, Palm oil, Glycerine and Fragrance (in fact VERY similar to "Caties Bubbles" ingredients). Products like MDC make me stop and think, if their ingredient list can be so small and their products be so nice, they must be doing something right.... but as always I value your opinion! It's important for me as a seller to take the time and listen. For this, I thank you! :-)
 
Ybbor said:
I would love some of the Australian smells. Walking in the snowy mountains has some awesome fresh smells. Could be something hidden there that's uniquely Australian. (For good or bad)
Click to expand...

Like BO and coal smoke?
 
BBQ/smoky, Vegemite, Frangipani, leather/oilskin...
 
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